SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to Soul Portals, exploring psycho-spiritual horizons with your hosts Cedric Speyer and Deanna Nagel. Cedric is an author and therapist who developed the interview guidance model and is a pathfinder in the psycho-spiritual realm. Deanna created the Essential Soul Care Model, a model suitable for therapists, coaches, and healers. The monthly episodes of Soul Portals feature guests sharing insights from their personal paths and professional practices. Thank you for tuning in for the Soul Talk with all kinds of trailblazing teachers and guides as Cedric, Deanna, and guests explore new evolutionary landscapes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

And Michael Vandenberg is our portal this month, Portal to the Infinite. And uh the opening invocation that I always say is may the spirit flow freely through our conversation and this gathering, allowing it to be both energizing and edifying. So to lead off, for people who are completely new to shamanism, I hope you'll learn a lot more about it. But instead of the opening quote, I have basic principles just to introduce you, six uh definitions if you like, uh called core shamanic assumptions. And of a course of course there is a big crossover that we'll get into about how this can inform your helping profession. So um here are quick definitions just to set the context. So unity, first one, humans are part of the totality of nature, are related to all other biological forms and are not superior to them. Uh next, there are two realities ordinary state of consciousness accesses ordinary reality, and shamanic state of consciousness accesses non-ordinary reality, and shamans are known to be a bridge between the two going to non-ordinary, bringing it back to ordinary. The universe consists of three worlds upper world, middle world, lower world. That probably corresponds to, well, loosely, because these are all positive, but heaven and hell purgatory. That's probably what the Catholics lifted. Um souls, members of all species, including humans, but all species have souls, they're personal enduring spirits. Really simple definition. Okay, helping spirits, which is a where shamanism really departs from other you know, helping paths. So helping spirits, uh their existence is a real empirical fact, a large variety of types, not all powerful outside of non-ordinary reality, but with shamanic assistance can have a significant impact in ordinary reality, as in healing matters. Got that helping? Those are people who are not in the room but are still there, or beings. And finally, a journey, a shamanic journey, a voyage into non-ordinary reality, especially to the upper and lower worlds, is to seek assistance for healing and divination. So there you go, that's your crash course in shamanism. Before we get into you know Michael's journey and what he has to impart with us and guide us through. So Michael, a little bit about I guess how you came to be, who you are today.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Thank you, Cedric. Um, yeah. What I have gathered thus far uh on my journey, if I look back, and also looking back from everything that I have experienced and the wisdom that I have now with me, I have observed that, specifically speaking about my shamanic journey, that I have chosen to incarnate on the shamanic channel. That the shamanic or shamanism is one of the channels that you can incarnate in to be of service in this way. And the most powerful channel that I could choose to incarnate into this existence on this planet on planet Earth is the shamanic channel. So that's why I chose this channel. And then to be able to understand the algorithms of this specific earth game, I put myself through all kinds of traumas, if you want to call it that, so that I can experience what I have observed the three main wounds are, which is the abandonment, betrayal, and rejection, which all leads to all of the expressions of the wound as well. And as we also understand the experience of the true self and the experience of the false self. So if I'm experiencing myself in the false self, then I'm expressing myself uh through the wound, and all my perceptions are also um filtered through the victim consciousness. And the only thing that I can experience is the victim, perpetrator, savior, those three archetypes then that I'm experiencing. So my past life is very colorful. My past life, my past existence in this life as only being a victim of my circumstances was quite colorful in experiencing all kinds of traumas. And um, I'm not gonna go into that because it's not really important. But the important part was when I simply reached a point where I received a phone call from a friend of mine. Uh, I'm in South Africa, and this friend of mine uh lives in Angola, which is a little bit up into Africa, and he phoned me and said that he's coming to South Africa and we haven't seen each other for a while, and he would love to have uh a dinner with me. And um I said that'll be lovely. Um, how long are you gonna be here for? And he said, only a few uh weeks or so. Then he's jumping onto a plane to the Peruvian Amazon jungle, and he's gonna go into the jungle and he wants to go and experience um having how it would feel to go into the jungle with some native salmons and take ayahuasca. So I was uh the the question that came to my mind, or the first thing that came to my mind is are you off your rocker? Are you nuts? You know, the the Amazon jungle is no playground, you know, that's it's uh you can die there. And he I asked him, how did you um make this decision? Now, just to put it into context, um, this colorful past I'm speaking about, I was um a drug dealer and a gangster. So I was I was a part of the underworld, if you could, if you could call it that. And this used to be one of my best uh drug buddies, if I can phrase it this way. And he simply said that he was uh he googled what the strongest drug in the world is, and he wanted to go and experience that. So it was actually quite a quite uh funny for me, but yeah, next thing I get this strong uh voice coming into my mind and telling me that I will be on the plane with him going into the jungle. And as he's busy just explaining to me, I kind of uh zone out for a moment and I just stop him mid-sentence and I say that I think I'm going with you. Well, long story short, uh, all of a sudden I'm finding myself booking tickets to the Amazon jungle and uh playing tickets and booking my um my tour to to be with these native shamans now, and I am uh busy with a dietary preparation so that my body can be cleansed, so that the physical vessel and the emotional vessel and spiritual and all my vessels, because we have four bodies the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual body. So now I'm going through this process of a 30-day preparation to prepare my vessel to receive the ayahuasca, to receive these frequencies now. And there is um a knowing that this is my path, this is where I'm supposed to be going. But I can tell you that it was one of the still today most intense experiences that I can ever say that I've experienced was the purification process, because I still had um all kinds of uh medicines in my body, because at that point I was a bodybuilder. So so I um my my body was full of steroids and full of uh uh pain meds and sleeping tablets and uh all kinds of things, plus the occasional drugs that I still took, and all of a sudden I had to go cold turkey on everything to prepare myself to go through this bottle. So that was truly intense to to go off of all of this. And what happened was all my shamanic abilities all of a sudden started switching on, and I could see through all dimensions and realms and experience beings with me. It was nuts, it was absolutely nuts. But there was this knowing in me that whatever I'm experiencing now will be temporary, I was guided, and I just needed to see it through, and that the direction that I'm going in is my path.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

So I made for people who aren't familiar with ayahuasca, just uh say something briefly about what that is.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Sure. So ayahuasca is a brew that they that is that originates from the Amazon jungle, the Peruvian and the Brazilian jungle, and that um it is basically the the base mix of it is the carpi vine, which is the ayahuasca vine. That is basically it contains the MEO inhibitor that allows the chakruna leaf, which is the DMT, to enter the brain barrier. So they just mix these two together, they they boil it for days sometimes, um, to make this tea, basically, which is a plant brew, that when you drink it, then you um can enter the DMT realm, basically, which is your inner realm. It helps you to enter your inner world. Um, and that experience can last anything from what probably about six hours to ten hours, depending on how much ayahuasca you take as well. But uh, yeah, that is a journey that you can go on. Um, and it is best to do that in the Peruvian Amazon, although there are shamans that travel that serve ayahuasca in other countries as well. And of course, um ayahuasca is definitely native to the South American Amazonian jungle. That's where it grows. Um, that's yeah, that's where it's native from there. So, long story short, next moment I'm on a plane and I find myself in the jungle, and I start to take the ayahuasca. It's a five-day or seven-day experience where you take ayahuasca five five times. And uh, after the second time, I had the experience of being already connected to my guides now. I could now hear them clearly, and it was my my my guidance team was with me, and I could access them at any point and have clear conversations with them at that point. And I I asked them, um, why am I here? Like, what is the purpose of you bringing me here? And then they asked me the question, Well, why do you think you are here? And then I looked for it for a moment and I said, hmm, probably you take responsibility for who I am. I just want to pause there and let everybody that's logged into this and everybody that will listen to this or watch this, just look at that question or look at that statement of taking responsibility for who you are, who you truly are. Because the character that we have created that we call ourselves is the one that cannot take responsibility for who it is. So, point being, now I asked my guides, okay, if I'm here to take responsibility for who I am, then what is the next step for that? And then they asked me, What is blocking you from this? And then I felt into it and I felt the overwhelming fear coming into my body. I said that like overwhelming fear is stopping me from taking responsibility, and then they said, Well, that is why you are here, you are here to face that fear, and I said, Okay, I'm willing to do that because I've come all this way. How do I do this? And then they said, Well, looking at your current environment, what is the thing in this environment that you fear most? And before I think too deeply into it, I think the thought, a full cup of ayahuasca. As I think the thought, I slap myself on the forehead like this because you're taking spoons full of this stuff, it is extremely powerful medicine. So a full cup of ayahuasca, the the fear that it will it will kill me, it will physically kill me. So that's the the fear of death that I now have to face. But as I as I think this thought, my guides immediately say, Well, now you know what to do. So I have to now take a full cup of ayahuasca.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

By the way, uh, do these guides like have names or identities that you are aware of?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

They they I didn't ask, but I felt safe, if that makes any sense. I felt I felt the truth of it. I felt the I resonated with it, and I uh I felt that it was truly uh a guidance team that I felt that has always been with me. It didn't feel like something new to me, it feel like it felt like something I just remembered. It felt like I was just home again with my my team, and I can now go forward again with them now that I can clearly hear them again. But I was uh my frequency was not at a nature where I could access uh their guidance so easily before. So now that I was purified and I was my frequency was raised again, it was a lot easier for me to hear them.

SPEAKER_05 15:25

And that that is a tradition that is or a spiritual practice that's not just with shamanism. If we if we have a sense of of having whatever we call it, spirit guides, I call it my council, my spiritual council. Um, it it does feel like when you when you recognize that team, that they've always been there.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah. Yeah, thank you for adding that. Yeah. No, and it is, of course, um, this journey that I'm speaking of is not every my whole experience is not just for a shaman. This whole experience I'm speaking of, every single individual can go through that experience if that is what they feel their path is. Because I've also um figured out that uh, well, observed is a better way of phrasing it, that the medicine path is not for everyone. It's definitely not for everyone. So um, if you feel drawn to the medicine path, or you feel drawn to working with a shaman, then you will know that okay, this is a part of my journey, and there is some information here for me, or there is a gateway that a shaman can open for me to pass through into a higher state of myself. And um, other other people will uh intuitively feel that meditation or yoga or whatever, there are different paths that we can follow. Uh, the shamanic path will not be relevant for everyone that I've I've observed as well on my part. So then I go through the experience where I don't want to go into that story because that's a story for maybe another time of what my experience was after I drank the full cup. But I can I can quickly sum it up. I went into the center of the center of the center of my being. I observed all of reality as being in my field. I was the field, and I could observe all as just being a part of my field. I could incarnate into any expression and feel and experience it and come back to my center. So I could I could go back to the center, and then I was in this dome basically, where I could observe in all directions, and I would see all like um every incarnation, but not just mine, like everything in existence I could experience, and I could go go to it and visit it and feel the density and the trauma of it, and then pop out and then come back to the piece, come back to the stillness.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

So that's the importance of that's I said that's really important, and it implies so much choice, right? Therapy is all about expanding people's choices, and and that's about as expansive as you can get, right? That you have the choice of a karmic situation under you don't get trapped in, you don't get trapped in. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yes, and then also just to say a quick thing that happened with me after I came out of that. I came into back into my body, and I I could feel the experience that I then had being back into the physical body was every single cell in my body was I was aware of every cell in my body, and every cell in my body had its own individual consciousness, and I could experience that all at once, and then I felt some discomfort um around my midsection, and I realized that it was the pants I was wearing that didn't feel comfortable. So I got up and I removed all my clothes, and I felt that this feels more comfortable. So just to share that story with you, and then um I just felt um that what is it now that I know what I am, and I know that there was zero fear in him, like absolutely no fear. In this current setting, what is it that I would like to do now, seeing as that I know what I am? And I realized that I wanted to go out the door and be with my people, be with the stone people, the standing people of the tree kingdom, the uh two-legged ones, the four-legged ones, the winged ones, the finned ones, and the creepy corlies. I wanted to be back in nature, and then I just felt on my way to the door this warm love coming around me, and I heard this voice saying, Dude, you're naked. This was one of the Western shamers, the helpers, that then put a blanket around me and guided me back to my chair. And um, I told him that, yes, I know, but I want to be with you know with nature, and he said that um no, just uh maybe it's better that I stay in the space. And then I realized, okay, cool, I understand this is part of an ayahuasca ceremony, and I have to um honor the ritual and I I have to stay in my space. So I so I honored the process. And after that, I have to say this there was great confusion for me because I now the game was up. Like I knew now that everything that was happening was just a play I was in. So the confusion that came in was now I know that I am God, but like why am I not experiencing the full effect of it yet? Because I thought that I was God, but you were not, if I could call it that. So there was too much ego aspect still involved that I was still a part of the separation, and there was an elatedness and um, well, an ego aspect. Um, what is the word I'm looking for? Arrogance, an arrogance that was with me first, because of the experience I went through. And it took me, I think, about eight years to understand the whole process of that, to come out of that ignorance of thinking that there is separation. And um, I can say that it's been more than eight years now, it's it's closer, I think, to 12 or 15 years than that when that experience happened. And I am now only starting to really log into that and understanding that there is no separation. So it's a it's a thought in the mind, but once you start to experience it more deeply, that is when the true magic starts to happen.

SPEAKER_05 21:30

And and that is also common with people who have spiritual awakenings across the board. You know, they have the spiritual awakening, and then they may even have a new sense of abilities, and they don't quite know what to do with those abilities, and it feels like ego attached.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

Instead of it being from spirit. Um so what you say resonates completely.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, the way I see it is is um I have observed that the moment that there is an An awakening that happens the first time, then the spiritual ego is born. So there is first the death of the human ego, but then the spiritual ego is born, and then there's another death that needs to happen. And sometimes that is a uh or most of the time it is a gradual process, and sometimes it can also happen quickly, but but yeah, after the death of the spiritual ego, then only real birth happens.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

So I am still I think that's what they call the dark night of the soul.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Sure. Yeah, the dark night, I think it happens twice, or it can happen more actually, but but the true dark night of the soul I feel we go through twice. So I am still busy with my process of the spiritual ego. I'm still I notice many times that the spiritual ego still uh presents itself because there is still the one that wants to be important or the one that is afraid of how other people perceive him. But and I do notice that it is not the one observing it, but I still see how I attach to that sometimes. So just to be clear, I'm still in that process of letting go of that. So just to quickly come to the understanding when I realized I was a shaman, was I, after that experience, I went home and spent about a year at home and then realized I needed to get to the jungle as quick as possible. Booked another trip to the jungle, um, then booked a dieta as well. Now, a shamanic dieta is when you go through a specific dieta where you can only eat very specific things, you can only think and do very specific things, and you are mostly isolated in the jungle, not too much disturbance, and um uh you get to join your consciousness with a specific master plant. And there are many master plants available that you can do dietas with. Um, if you want to do, you can even do a dieta with a with the plant with a basil plant, but um, that's also a very powerful plant. But this specific plant is mostly, I would say, uh, I don't want to say mostly, but it is, let's say mostly, for shamans. And it is called sanango. It is called abuelo sanango. Abuelo is grandfather, and uh the plant is sanango, and it is a very strict plant. It is like a like an old man with um with a cane that that knocks you when you step out of alignment. And the process I went through was a nine-day process with this dieta, where you are not allowed to go into craving or aversion. You are only you must only stay in the center because it helps you to move through that central channel so that you can pass through a gateway to a much higher frequency. And the moment that you go out of the channel, there is extreme suffering. Extreme suffering. You go dizzy and you feel nauseous and you feel afraid. So, so you have to train your mind and stay super sharp to stay in that central channel because there is extreme suffering when you exit the channel. Now, if we look at life, life is exactly like this, but we just experience it in a much more subtle way. But the the more, the higher your frequency becomes, the more black and white that experience becomes. Like for me now, when I when I exit my central channel now, to me, it feels like hell on earth. It is extremely dense, and then I do everything in my power to return to my central channel, knowing now a wound, an old wound, just invited me back into the darkness. So just to finish with, on uh possibly day five or six or so through this process, every day we sit in front of a panel of shamans, probably about between seven or ten shamans, I can't remember what, but a panel of shamans from different places in the world. And of course, the main shamans, the head shamans are native uh Shapibo shamans from the jungle, and they only speak Shopeibo and uh Spanish. So, and there are many people in the room as well, um uh that participants that are also a part of this experience, and then the participants can ask a question and the shamans answer. So it's a question-answer uh panel that we have every day while we are busy going through this experience with the Sanango. And on this day, the somebody in the crowd would ask, or in the in the uh the people there would ask a question, and when the shamans would answer, they would look at me. And I was like, I'm not the one asking the question, why are you looking at me? Like the thought came into my mind, and I'm like, Am I tripping you? What's happening? Like, I just I just become very aware of the fact that they're putting all of them putting their focus on me, and all of a sudden, the words in a moment of silence, the words come out of my mouth. I think I'm a shaman, I am a shaman, I'm a shaman. So it's like it just drops, and this this joy just fills my body, and I look up and the whole panel goes, hmm, they're all acknowledged. I get goosebumps when I think about it. So that was my awakening into my shamanic journey that happened in the jungle on that. Now, of course, many years of intense trial, trials, and tribulations followed to that, where my ego had to be completely destroyed, and it was ceremony after ceremony after experience where I was put through intense trials and tribulations to face my fears. And then if I go ahead, I'm just remembering what you said earlier.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

I think it was before we started the podcast that and you're explaining this, but I want people to understand that you didn't learn this from a book, you didn't take a course, you actually you actually took the path.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

100% the path, the path was there, and I I had to take the path. Of course, um there are many people that go through this uh and learning through books because now they are just becoming more interested in the shamanic journey. But if you are the way of the shaman, but I I understand that if you are a shaman and this is your path, then this is the way that it will happen. You will go through these trials and tribulations, and also if you do not answer to your path, the suffering uh gets more severe. Yeah, this I've experienced that and you learned from other shamans.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

I want to ask, you know, because you you use the word destroy for the ego. Yeah, so I want to ask about the functional ego in the world, like a healthy ego. Sure. Let me in the human condition, it's not meant to be destroyed anymore than the body's meant to be destroyed.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Sure, sure. Let me explain what I mean by that, then let me put it into different terms. Um I want to well, let me just first see where I'm gonna come in with this. Okay, the destruction of the ego in this way is basically with it reminds me of two quotes. One is from the Bible and the one is from A Course in Miracles. The one in A Course in Miracles, I'll start with, and it is where um it quotes that nothing that it has to offer you is something that you want. So let's say the destruction of my identification with it, that would be the truth of it. Not destroying the ego because that is what it is, and my wanting to destroy it would be a form of rejection which feeds it, which keeps me attached to it. So the correct phrase would be destroying my false identification with it. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for bringing that to the surface. Yeah, and the other quote I wanted to look at was that the willingness to sacrifice your firstborn. Let me put that into an explanation because this is something that's recently it's for the last year or so, it's coming to my field, and I'm now the understanding of that is now starting to sink in. If I look at me being uh the being, and the being being spiritual soul experiencing itself or soul, all soul aspect, I know we're multi-dimensional aspects, but as the beingness experiencing myself as and through this human, um, if I look at when there is a situation that triggers my human, because I am a human being, and when I'm in my being, I can observe my human, and I can observe my human, which is my ego aspect, and when my my human is triggered by something, that trigger is because of my first perspective of it. So my first reactive perspective is my firstborn, and if I am willing to sacrifice my firstborn and completely let go of the any possibility that I would want to use that as an option going forward now, I'm sacrificing my firstborn concept and perspective, then I have access to my soul perspective or my being perspective. So that's why I say that that comes to mind as well.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

That's quite the quite the reframe of the Bible story. I don't think I've ever heard that one before, you know, because the firstborn Herod killing the firstborn and to allow Jesus to survive and take his path, you're completely reframing that.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Jesus represents Christ. So the moment I let go of my negative ego aspect, which is my firstborn, which is my reactive nature, then who's the one that comes to the forefront? Christ, my Christ nature, or my Buddhic nature, or my Shiv Shiva nature. So just working with the Bible, then I give access to my Christ nature coming to the forefront. If I'm willing to sacrifice my ego reaction, you see.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Right, yeah. So now in the present, you do work with clients, right? In Europe, non-speaking aside, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yes. I am daily I work with um between I can say between five and seven clients that I see per day, and I assist them all with wherever they are on their journey to help them to teach them, shift their perspective from the ego perspective into the being perspective, from the negative ego perspective into the positive being perspective. And it's all just a matter of perspective, it's how we define reality that is where we manifest from. And the way that I teach is we are either manifesting from the old algorithm or the new algorithm. And as Paul also said in the Bible, we're either in the old man or the new man, you see. Right. So I help explain to people this, and of course, I also do shamanic journeys.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Do you do any energetic healing? Like any uh interactive.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Yes, I do interactive energetic um healing as well, where um something that is very specific to what I do is I help people to uh work a little bit with um well, I don't want to say a little bit quite intense, with uh sacred geometry, sacred geometry and also metaphysics. So where we all have our antacorana, which is our um our rainbow bridge, if you like, and for us again to make that connection again to the soul, I help to take people through a process to do this.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Is it like a guided meditation?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Yes, 100%, like a guided meditation, and also it is a process where uh we we are multidimensional, so and the dimensions of our to just give it names as they they give it in metaphysics, is we have our personality, which is the person that we are experiencing now, which then is the has the upper world and the lower world, so we can either experience ourselves through our negative ego algorithm, or we can experience ourselves through our our Christ or Buddhic nature. So so when we do start to make that choice to come out of suffering, we start to reach up, and then the first level that we reach up to is the soul consciousness. We call just we just call that the soul consciousness, and every soul has an expression of 12 personalities, so and the moment that I choose to connect with my soul, then all other uh connections are closed, and all of the soul's um uh attention is now put on the one that's choosing to go through.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Is that why there's 12 disciples?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Again, I would say yes, because Christ is the soul, and the 12 disciples are the 12 different personalities or the 12 aspects of Christ.

SPEAKER_05 35:00

We have a question in the in the chat. Um to heal with you, do clients need to take plants as you did?

SPEAKER_01 35:08

No, okay, sure. That is one thing that I offer if it is on your path. But I would say 95% of the people that work with me do not work with the plants. They're just the people that that come to me that that want to work with the plants, then that I say, okay, let's work with you a little bit to to just prepare your energy and to also prepare all your vessels so that we can see if your energy is ready to go through that experience.

SPEAKER_05 35:38

Can you talk a little bit about your process with a client with shamanic journeying? Because I know a lot of counselors and therapists engage in some of that. And I'm just curious what your process looks like.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Thank you. Yes. So, first, before I work with anybody with the plants, I first bring them into this office that I'm sitting in now, and then we connect, we bring in the guides, and then the guides bring information through to show us um where on the path they are and if their energy will be ready for a medicine journey now or not, if that is what they choose, if they do choose to work with the plants. And then the guides would suggest that they change a few things about their habit patterns and about the things that they are putting into their vessels at the moment to prepare them, to prepare them to energetically receive the channel that wants to come to them. And then they will go through a process. And some people come to me and they they're already ready. Uh, lots of people actually come to me that are already ready, that I can see after the after one session we can take them to the plants. And some people I have to work uh with for a few sessions to to prepare them um emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

And for the non-plant people?

SPEAKER_01 36:58

The non-plant people, I continue to uh work with them uh if this is what they choose, and I work with them with um sacred geometry and also just the teachings, and also uh assisting them with uh teaching them about frequency and teaching them about vibration. Because if you understand that everything that you consume through all of your senses has an effect on your vibrational frequency, then to become more discerning on what it is that you consume assists you greatly in raising your frequency, and raising your frequency prepares your channel to receive the soul consciousness a bit more, well, a lot more, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

I wanted to ask about the microdosing, which is very trending, trending. Sure. Microdosing at the super sign 100.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

I would definitely like to speak about that. I actually feel like I just want to uh answer uh Dianne's question uh before I continue with that, just to finish with um the preparation for the journey. So then, as I feel that they are ready for the journey, then there is a seven-day preparation. They just need seven days. Um while I work them to a point where where seven days is enough. And in those seven days, you don't put anything from an animal in your body because I work with psilocybin, which is a different frequency than ayahuasca. And not that there's anything wrong with with eating animals, if that is your your your path still at this point, um, and that is your truth, there's nothing wrong with it, and especially for shamans, we do see everything as every plant and every animal, every insect, everything is spirit. So you are killing, uh, to be able to live, you kill. That's why we honor everything. So there's no there's no difference in if you're killing a plant or if you're killing an animal. Um, it's just according to where on your path you are, whether you're going to be attracted to put less animal products in your body because the the plants have a higher frequency, and you can raise your frequency more if you only consume plants, or if you at least consume a lot less uh animal products. And of course, now just to finish with the dietary preparation, nothing from an animal that includes dairy, um, no sugar, no caffeine, um, no chemicals of any kind, so no medicines of the world, and no drugs, and no other plant medicines, and no sexual, no sexual conduct as well.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

That is similar. Um, I teach Reiki, and there is a 30-day cleansing period once you've become attuned to Reiki. And I'm sure there are other healing traditions that that incorporate this cleansing period. So I find that interesting.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Uh that raises the question of uh prescribed medicines from doctors from family doctors for people who have conditions, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

100% if you are still on prescribed medicines when you come to that point, then you go through a uh preparation where uh you are guided by through me sometimes, and of course, uh through your own guidance, where you can come out of that just by changing your diet, you can heal whatever uh chronic um uh medical conditions you have. That is why my partner Candace focuses specifically on that. She she works with um with uh with with diets. With um, let me just see what is her label if you have to give her a label. Plant-based nutritionist. Yeah, it's just plant-based. So, in other words, you can still do meat, but that's mostly plant-based, and she then assists people to um show them the path of changing your diet and changing your habits, which can completely take you out of your illness. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Deanna is an ethicist, so I'm just wondering what the ethics of someone coming off their medication. Like you must have lots of disclaimers.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

They use approaching.

SPEAKER_05 40:55

And for us, for those of us in the room that are therapists, we have a scope of practice to follow, we have a code of ethics, some of us have a license, so we already have established guidelines. In fact, I think somebody in the chat says, what happens if a client hits a real crisis point in the work? If that's okay to ask. Um and so that would go along the same line, you know, if you if somebody goes off their meds and then they have a crisis and they're working with you, sure. You know, what protection has a process of redirecting from lawsuits, basically.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

100%. I'm I'm with you. So I let me answer all of that, okay? So to finish with the process quickly so that we can wrap that up. Uh, there is also no sexual conduct in and that this is all for seven days before and four days after. And then as you go through that experience, um uh your preparation and the the purity of your vessel will determine the the frequencies that you will be able to receive. So the stronger your dedication, the stronger your ceremony process will be, and the the higher the timeline is that you will come out on on the other side, if I can put it this way. Now, to answer uh those other two questions where working with the medication in this way, I always take them back to the people that prescribed the medication. And they simply go back to those people and say that this is the lifestyle change that I have now chosen. And all of this is guided by spirit, by the way. None of it is just Michael's opinion or Michael's uh telling them this is what you're supposed to do. All of it, the guides are with this all the way because the person will feel guided on what to do and they will feel safe in what they are doing. There is no, there is nothing where they will feel like they are forced to do this. If they are not guided to do this, they they don't even come to me. So spirit is working with all of this, okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

So they go back to their western family doctor. Can you just finish that thought?

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Yes, they go back to their western doctor and simply say to the doctor that um, well, mostly it if it is psychiatry, uh psychic psychiatric medicines, then they just tell their psychiatrist that they would like to wean off of what they are busy with, and the psychiatrist shows them the way. And every single time so far, with every person that I've sent on this path, the psychiatrist just simply gives them the information because it is their duty, and they um come, they come obviously, they will give them warnings or so, but again, all of this is guided by spirit, all of it, and physical conditions like medication or medical conditions, then they go through a dietary change first. That's why you say sometimes there's a bit of a uh longer process, and they they it's not just go seven days and you have to go cold turkey on everything. So there is a process leading up to the seven days. You see, it's not that they have to all of a sudden now say, Okay, in a week from now, you're gonna go into the journey space, you need to go cold turkey on all your medicines. That's not All the process they will then be guided again by myself or by my lady Candace that this is the protocol to follow to come to fix the body so that the body can come into homeostasis so that these medications will no longer be necessary, and that is also a weaning-off process. And the people then that they go into that seven-day preparation, year by day four or five, everything is already different. The moment that they they purify themselves from all of these uh worldly things, they're already in a much, much higher frequency. And by the time they come into ceremony space, they've already gone through their gate, they've already gone through a massive transformation. And by the time that they go into the space, it is a smooth transition. Well, I wouldn't say smooth, but a lot smoother. Um, but yeah, sometimes the process can be quite intense because it's it's basically so it's a lot of times it's experienced as a death, right?

SPEAKER_05 44:56

So we have we have about 10 minutes, but I and I see a couple more questions, so I want to make sure I um somebody finish that to Diana.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Just to finish this subject here, I have a question for you. How is Michael protected against lawsuits?

SPEAKER_05 45:13

Because what's well, I'm not in South Africa, so I don't I don't know what the rule is there. I can help you with this, I can help you. But quickly, I'm a therapist, I'm a I'm a spiritually integrated psychotherapist, I'm working with people who may be in spiritual emergency, and I'm working with people who may have psychiatric emergencies, and there is a defining piece in that to guide the person on a path, but I have to do that within my code of ethics and within my scope of practice, which is another podcast. So thank you for that. So somebody says, Oh, does the sacred geometry create vessels to hold frequently? Frequency.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Vessels. Vessels, yes, so okay, yes, yes, you you restructure your energy field so so you're um because most of our energy fields are out of um out of resonance, so our energy fields are usually distorted because of the things that we consume. And as we clear those, we need to restructure our energy fields again, and then we go into a meditative space that is that is guided then that helps you to restructure your field, which then is a building of a vessel. And of course, the the Merkaba is one of the vessels, but there are there are other structures that we build, uh close structures and fast structures. So you can build structures for the space that you are in, and of course, you build structures, and this is all, of course, in the ethereal realm, authoric realm, and also on the astral realm, but you build structures for your space that you are in, and you build structures for the space that your body is in. So your body gets put into this vessel, which then completely changes your frequency, and it assists you to be able to reach and receive higher frequencies.

SPEAKER_05 47:08

Okay, I think we and then I think the last point was contraindicative for some people, I guess. And I think we covered that because this is a spiritual path, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

What about power animals, totem animals? Do you have your own power animal?

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Yes. Yes, and um actually I've got a few things that I work with, and specifically that I've got three power animals that I work with in my space. Uh, one is a tiger. Um, the that's the one I call in when there is trouble. Because the tiger, when he comes in, he rubs everything apart. Like he'll go and and uh just remove dense energies and entities from the space, but in a very aggressive way, so I don't call upon him too too often. Uh, especially the last while because of my sacred geometry that I've learned uh there's not a lot of need for the tiger anymore. And then I've got a spider as well. My spider helps me with my manifestations and also to weave certain webs around my space that I can that I can use. And the other one is the the I wanted to say L now, but it wasn't an L. Let me just give me a moment. I haven't worked with him so long. Let me just check where he is. No, it is the L. It is the L. The L, the L I I like I said, I haven't used him for quite some time. The the one that I used last was the spider, and the L I used to use to help me with clear vision. The the L can help me with with better vision in the space to clear my vision. Um, and of course, if there are other things that I work with as well, like when you do this work, you you go into realms where you meet other beings and they gift you with things. Like I've got a trident that I use, and I've received a sword from Archangel Michael, and um I've got a pouch that I've received uh with some um sanango and a little scroll that's got the four agreements on it that is that I carry uh in my heart, and uh a stone, a malachite stone, uhite stone. So I've got a moldavite stone and a and um a sacred scroll with the four agreements written on it, and um uh yeah, what I just mentioned.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

The the agreements from the Miguel, the totem total Miguel Ruiz, uh the four agreements.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah, the four agreements is what I live my life by.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

Right, we should put that in the resources. That book it's a great book. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

It is the it was the first book that took me out of the old and helped me to pass through the gate into the new. Because it was explained to me so simply, where if the one is an illusion, then the falseness keeps me in the illusion. So the only way to come into the real is to start operating in the truth. And how do I access the truth? I start to speak it, and then I could I become impeccability so that I can become the truth. And that is the only thing that keeps me in that realm. Do you do you work with groups? Yes, I often work with groups. I've got every Monday as well, I've got a group uh that meditate with me uh on Zoom as well. And uh we do usually once a month, we do a group where we a bunch of us come together, and it's it's a lot of new people also that come, but we we do a workshop uh once a month on whatever the current topic is. Like um, the last topic that I worked with was um learning how to work with energies and also how to protect your space and cleanse your space, and the one before that was relationships, and you also work virtually, you do individual and groups 100%. A lot of my work virtual, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Can you assess the frequency of a group like this one?

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Yes, yeah. Go ahead. Sure, sure, thank you for that. It's quite a mix. Uh, if I had to put an average, it's definitely over 200. Um, but I do feel a few ones that are above 500 as well, and of course, one or two that are under 200.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Yeah, are you using Hawking's uh method of frequencies?

SPEAKER_01 51:39

100%. Yeah. And again, this is nothing to do with ego, or the this is just what the information is, and it's there's no good or bad or right or wrong. It just needs where we are on our path.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

Right, that measurement comes from the book Power and Force.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Oh, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:57

What what is the book? So I can put it in the chat.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Power and force by Dr. David R. Hawkins.

SPEAKER_05 52:11

Does anybody we've got a few minutes? Um, anybody have a specific question for Michael?

SPEAKER_03 52:18

There was another comment, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_05 52:26

Um I see somebody said the uh sorry, the chat's moving.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

When we get in touch with the spirit animal, is that the okay it is very easy to feel into your spirit animal because it's been an animal that you have been attracted to in the form of pictures, movies, uh something that you feel strongly uh affiliated with or a strong attraction to. So you would love horses, so your the horse would be uh your spirit animal, or you would have a fascination with spiders, and the spider could be your spirit animal. And that also, depending on um where you are in your life, that also changes. So it's not that you have the same spirit animal always, and there is also power in every single uh spirit animal and every single insect. So it's not that when you've got a fly as a spiritual spiritual animal, no, no, no, no, flies are disgusting, they're not so powerful. Flies are extremely powerful. So to understand that whatever you have a liking in and uh feel drawn to that could be your spirit animal. And if you truly want to know, you could just go into a uh deep meditation and simply ask your spirit animal to reveal itself to you, and the the knowing will drop in and you'll feel it, you'll know it.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

Yeah, the other thing about shamanism is that all different parts of the world, the same experiences and traditions arise without any contact with each other.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Exactly. Yeah, that's why I say it's a channel, it's a specific channel, and it is there is only one shaman. No, there is only one shaman, you understand? And it is that one shaman expresses itself through all the different channels of people that then connect to that one shaman, like there is only one Christ channel, you see, and we all then connect either to that channel or we are disconnected from that channel, and again, I'm just using the word Christ because that's the Western um name for the central channel. If you uh the uh more eastern channel would be Buddha, so we would say the Buddhic channel, or we would say the Shiva channel, so it is all just the central channel.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

You're lucky you weren't around during the Inquisition.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Maybe you were maybe I was probably.

SPEAKER_05 54:58

I just want to speak just for a second to um questions or comments that often come up after we've done a podcast like this. Um when therapists who are our primary audience live um are trying to uh figure out how this impacts their work. And so I just want to say that the reason Cedric and I are here and bring people like Michael to this conversation is because it increases our cultural humility and it increases our spiritual literacy, and that is so important when we are working with other people. So this this particular conversation just brought that forth for me, and we've got a minute, and I just want to say thank you, Michael. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

Because even if it's not our own path, we're then we're then aware if somebody comes in with similar experiences and that's their path, the more we know about it, the better.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Beautiful, thank you for that, and thank you. It was truly my honor to uh express my path in this way, and uh thank you for inviting me. It was beautiful for me.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

Yeah, thank you. I actually do a closing blessing, but if you have one, do you have a closing blessing for the group?

SPEAKER_01 56:18

I would love to, yeah. Yeah, okay. Okay, thank you all. Um, okay, if we can all just come into our centers and close our eyes, if you want to follow me in. We call upon the violet flame of Saint Germain to bathe us all in this violet transmuting flame. Blaze, blaze, blaze, violet flame, violet flame, transmuting all negative energies, negative entities, parasitic attachments, unwanted elemental synethetic mucus back into the purity and perfection of God. Continue with this violet flame in a 10 kilometer radius from where we are all sitting. Thank you to Saint Germain and the violet flame. Now we call upon the golden twelfth ray. Thank you for bathing us all in this golden twelfth ray, harmonizing all systems in the body, bringing peace and harmony into our hearts and every cell of our body, filling every energy center with this golden Christ light. Thank you to the golden twelfth ray. Thank you to the stone people, the standing people, the two-legged ones, the four-legged ones, the winged ones, the finned ones, and the creepy crawlings. Thank you for co-creating this wonderful experience with us. Thank you that we are in the flow, the flow is in us, and we are the flow. Thank you that we remember, and thank you that we are successful.

SPEAKER_03 58:02

Oh, everybody feel beautiful blessing. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_05 58:34

The violet flame is one of my familiar images.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

It's very powerful. I I can feel out this just cleanses and calms the space of everything. I can feel now how this whole space is feeling different. Everybody feels quiet and calm. Well, a lot calmer than what we did before. Empowered, thank you. The beauty of information and how information empowers us.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Speaking of information, if people want to follow up with you individually or in groups, they will put the links you can for them to find you.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Thank you. Thank you so much. Now I think my uh telephone number and my website is on or is my email address will be on my website as well. But it's uh easy website, it's mike147 at me.com. And uh yeah, and my um website is also on theirs, highvibe mic.com, which is easy to find as well.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

And lastly, you don't read the books, but you could certainly write one.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

Oh, yeah, you can and you are not the first one. My guys are on my back about this, they truly are.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

Okay, and and I'm an editor, so if you need editing. Oh, beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_03 59:57

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Well, keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Okay, John.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

Well, thank you. Here we are at the end of our hour together. What a wonderfully dynamic and cleansing hour. So thank you, thank you, Michael, Cedric, Diana. Thank you to all of us for the way that we've been present together. Really appreciate that. And I just want to say thanks to our team here at Online Events, Erwin and Sebastian, for taking such good care of us.